Atheism - You Are Here...

I don't really qualify for a title of "atheist," but I will tell you why I'm agnostic. You can call it the reasonable man's choice.

I willingly admit my ignorance as to whether or not a god exists. Due to the lack of empirical evidence, I have come to the logical conclusion that nobody can prove the existence of any god. Every "logical" explanation that I've heard from religious people is usually just some form or variation of multiple fallacies.

I don't count on the notion of an afterlife because we have no empirical evidence that such a life exists.

I don't accept religious writings such as the Bible, the Qur'an, or the Vedic scriptures to be the word of God or gods. They were written by men for men. Any claims to be the son of a god or claim to be a prophet is just that...a claim. We have no other evidence to the contrary except the testimony of those people and their devoted followers.

I was born into a Catholic family and attended Catholic schools as a child. I ventured into the Baptist religion as a teenager/young adult. I have immediate family that is Methodist. I have studied the history of Eastern and Western religion and have seen the evolution of world religions over several thousand years. All religions were created by man and most can be traced back to simple ancient practices, including animism, astrology, and a general worship of nature and natural events. The Abrahamic religions all extend from the teachings of ancient Hebrews, who in fact borrowed many of their stories and concepts from Egyptian and Sumerian mythology, and were later influenced by Zoroastrianism, Greek mythology, and possibly even the Eastern religions. There are also signs of ancient Dravidianism throughout many of the region's religions, especially in Hinduism and the Abrahamic religions.

As a result of these things, as well as others which will take much longer to explan in detail, I cannot reasonably reach the conclusion that any of the world's religions are accurate or that any god does in fact exist. Any logical conclusion I have reached confirms to me that the gods we believe in cannot or do not exist.

This means that we either have not properly explained what such a god would be, that we aren't capable of knowing or understanding such a god and his purpose (which would make religion pointless), that such a god does not exist, or that we can only admit that the possibility of a god exists but we will likely never know during our life on Earth.

Is that a good enough alternate answer?

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God's existence cannot be proven by our current technological devices or instruments, but His influence on people cannot either be denied.

"without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him."

Anyone sincerely seeking for God will find Him. The problem with the "atheists" is that they are neither interested in seeking for Him nor are willing to give it a try. But the main reason is fear, sheer fear that they might actually find Him, and the thought is terrifying. Some people are so afraid of change that they avoid it at any cost. But they live in fear, even if it is based only at the possibility that they may be wrong and that God actually does exist. Yet, nothing could be further from the truth. Knowing God opens up a totally new perception of reality and of life, it gives real meaning to it and frees us from fear and concern from a otherwise uncertain and unknown future.

If they would only try!!!

It is written that the fear of God is the begining of wisdom. But, I don't think that fear is really a factor in the atheists choice.

Let us wait and see what the atheists profess.

I do like the notion that the current tools and instruments we posses to try to ascertain empirical evidence of God are crude at best, and that at some point there could be an aparatus that would allow such a clear cut discovery.

Then again, by our faith we already know God. Faith is an instrument that we crudely and clumsily wield. We walk with God, then we stumble and fall away. Then we slowly make our way back. It is taught that God is no respector of persons, there fore, he only moves towards you when you move towards Him.

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A splendid answer on this topic.
Leaves a lot of room for deeper thoughts and explorations.

Thanks for bringing the agnostics to the table. :)

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I would consider myself a Deist. Basically that means that I believe in a God, I worship him in my own way on my own time and that this God as nothing to do with the day to day dealings with us as humans. This is a simplied kinda statement but I hope you get the geist. Just like Publius, most Deist do not believe in the "Word of God".

I am wanting to further my knowldege. I am very interested in Karma and that type of thinking. I tend to believe in negative and positive energies that people put out. I wonder how much this affects them and those around them.

I thought you were a disciple of the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

My moniker was the leading Deist of his time. Read "The Age of Reason", it blew me away when I was in high school.

It is impossible to say what God is. Oh, I know Her; and you might know Him ... but however you try to define It, you are 'wrong.'

The best we can do here on Earth is describe our perceptions of That ... chiefly telling others what God ~is not~, followed closely by descriptions of Her Shadows.

... signed, Uncle MythMan---Big Fan of Friend-Networks like Hi-5 - About SuperBust, Watch Me

I didn't say which God. FSM is a deist dream!

I use FSM when writers start going down the 'ole George Michael route i.e. - You Gotta Have Faith. Then I will use FSM to smite them. FSM was a brilliant answer to the intelligent design question.

I say I am a Deist becaus that has been as close a religious belief as I have found to describe how I feel. I believe there are things that are unknown and maybe "supernatural". Like said before I believe in negative and positve energies. I reject that there is a god that watches over us or even created man let alone a book to praise him by. God/FSM, to me is something I can use to try and focus on positves and reduces my negatives. I would not call it prayer. I would not call on God to give me direction or help me with something. It something I can focus on. Like thinking of the night sky and how things might have began.

I was raised Mormon, and spent several years studying various other religions and eventually came to the conclusion that even if God does exist, no one religion is the “right” religion. I had faith that one day I would find the answer through God himself. A few years later I realized what I was doing after thinking long and hard on the subject. “Having Faith” is the process of believing in something because you want it to be true, regardless of any and all existing evidence that proves through any science (or even non-science) that it is false. Faith is the opposite of common sense, reason, and logic. It’s the ‘Don’t think, just do it’ mechanism that drives theists into a mode of thinking which if grown accustom to by the individual, will provide them a way to believe just about anything they want, which more often than not is a complex, totally unrealistic fairytale

I feel the closest category I could fit in to would be the one of the analytical mans choice. I’ve thought long and hard about it and feel that the process itself has the natural outcome of changing a theist mind into that of a non-theist or atheist mind. Thinking is reason, logic, and common sense; which are the three greatest enemies of any religious paradigm.

I’ve had theists claim that since one cannot prove the existence of God anymore than they can prove his non-existence that it’s safest just to believe, you know, just in case. The majority of these sayings are nothing more than scare tactics, hooks to draw others in to a dangerous way of thinking which impairs judgment and distorts a person’s moral values. Take the quote in Imorovan’s post for example:

"Without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him."

This implies that you will receive rewards for seeking God, but in the same sentence implies that you must simply believe in him (i.e. have faith) or else you will not receive these rewards. It directly provides you with a consequence for not seeking and believing in God which plays on the human impulse of greed (A person will always want more than what they currently have.) I’ve seen worse quotes, my personal favorite is “If you do not believe in God above all else, it will in the end make no difference what you have chosen instead,” which of course (do I even have to explain) is a direct threat implying God first or else damnation. Mostly these are scare tactics aimed at scaring people into submission and keeping them too scared to consider alternatives.

In my opinion, the idea of a God is so farfetched and unlikely that it would be laughable if it wasn’t for the sadly, negative effect religion has had on our world. Speaking logically, with common sense, and reason; atheism is not a choice. Atheism is the natural state of being that all humans are born in to. Only when a person encounters religion does one make a choice. I feel this blog post should be revised to ask:

Is theism:
- a lazy mans choice?
- an analytical mans choice?
- a confused mans choice?
- a pummeled mans choice?
- an angry mans choice?
- a justified mans choice?
- by proxy?
- a choice found some other way than the above?

Its like your the non-evil twin to Publius. Scary!

When someone asks me if I believe in God, I simple tell them the question has no relevance to me. Since God is a concept, I have to entertain the concept to answer that question. I really prefer not to.

I've heard some militant atheists and theists tell me that is sitting on the fence, which is nonsense. For me the fence doesn't exist.

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wHATUP...

Are you saying that I'm "evil"?

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NO! NO! Master Publius! I would never say such thing! I am sorry that I miswrote in the above comment. Please do not hurt me!

Seriously though, his writing reminded me of yours but a little less caustic. You have a real edge to your writing that I happen to really like. And even though I tire of the topic - your global warming piece was VERY good today.

I could have asked that, but I am trying to find out more about Atheists, not Theists.

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wHATUP...You are forgiven, my child. (Just don't let it happen again!)

Yeah, my writing is a little edgy. But somebody has to be the antagonist here, right? I don't see myself as one, but it seems that everyone else does. What can you do?

If only people read the words in my articles instead of looking at the name assigned to them. A boy can dream, can't he?

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I fall into the analytical category and I believe most atheists do. I want to clear up a misconception many theists have about atheists though. Lack of belief is not the same as claiming God does not exist, it is simply lack of belief. A strong atheist will deny god's existence by putting forth the claim that god doesn't exist, however the majority of atheists in this world is not the strong type the majority simply lack belief in a deity because they find no good reason to believe in such a thing. That is not the same as claiming that God does not exists it is simply lack of belief and when confronted with the claim of Gods existence we respond by stating the reasons we don't beleive in that claim. This means we are simply denying a claim and it's not the same as making a claim. Atheist are not making specific claims we respond to them.

I can only speak for myself but me being an atheist was not a conscious choice I made, it was a state of mind I reached based on expererience, intuition, knowledge and common sense before I even knew what the term atheism describes. I couldn't choose to have it any other way even if I wanted too. My parents never had any religious influence on me my mother was slightly protestant and my father never thought much about religion or isms at all I think, I guess that makes him atheist without even knowing it. I like to call him a natural atheist. Lack of belief is the starting point for any newborn human until we learn about the concept of God. I'M CLAIMING we are all born atheist, and I'm also claiming most people don't choose which religion to believe in. This is largely dependent on geographical and other factors we are not in control of. However, I'm not saying we don't have a choice.

Why is it so hard for an "atheist" or a non believer make a simple effort and give it a try to discover something that could potentially change their minds and their lives? Oops. dumb me, but of course: change, to some people, is utterly scary, especially when the change has the potential to bring down the whole unbelief structure the person feels so comfortable with.

But honestly, what's there to lose? Why not give it a try? I can assure you that, if your intention is honest and sincere, God will not fail to manifest Himself to you. Excuses like "I am not interested", it's a waste of time", why should I do it is I don't believe in it" will always stand in the way.

If an atheist is sincerely looking for evidence, then why not go to the source of the claim of believers? Why the natural curiosity of the human being is not applied in this case?

I know of many people who have come to a point where they simply took a step of faith and simply asked "God, if you are real, if you are what the Christians claim you are, give me a sign, make me see and understand why they believe what they believe and why do they claim all those things they claim about you? I don't know whether you exist or not, I have not seen any evidence of your existence, but I understand that I am not in possession of all the knowledge in the universe, but Christians claim that you ARE, that you EXIST and that you are a LIVING presence in their lives. Reveal yourself to me and help me understand"

Is it too much to ask?

And kjhack, would it be much to ask you to do the same thing?

Ok, what are you suggesting I should give a try first? your Christian God? Hinduism? Buddhism? Islam? any other arbitrary god? Obviously, you see it as your task to convince me to belive in the christian god, but actually I have given the concept of religion a lot of thought and decided to dismiss it. I lack belief! there's nothing you can do or say that will change this. I have revealed my views on religion already

You seem to make a few generalizations and assumptions about atheists that are simply not true or legitimate. Like the one about atheists being afraid of change... or when you are suggesting that atheists claim to be in possesion of all the knowledge in the universe. why don't you give atheism a try? Or are you afraid of change? do you see the unreasonability of that argument? it can basically be applied to anything and it has no substance... Let me ask you, are you afraid of going to hell should you loose your faith for any reason?

I already was an atheist, a hard core one, with all the bells and whistles of being one. There was no reason or motivation for me to become a Christian. None whatsoever. But in my search for the "human phenomenon" I have read and studies many different religions, sects and cults, I experimented in each of them, I tried to follow their teachings. And, all of them got me to a wall of bricks from where further advancement became impossible. I had made no intentional effort to become a Christian, it was a gradual process of both logical and spiritual change and growth. In the end, even simple logic got me to the point of considering Christian beliefs to be the most consistent and common sense spiritual manifestation of that which I am today. I cannot point a moment in time or a place in space when the change happened. In my case, it was gradual but consistent.

My beliefs have nothing to do with fear of Hell. Fear clutter the mind and limits the freedom that being a Christian brings within. Hell, to me is a reality as much as Heaven is.

Yet, Hell is that which we all, believers and unbelievers fear instinctively, because it is impossible to prove its existence. Yet, the very fact that staying on the fence is a 50/50 chance of ending up there, even if following pure logic, makes it a fearful place. Have you ever played roulette? Have you ever placed your bet on either red or black spot? You do realize that there is only one of the two option that can be achieved. when you play with money you can afford to lose, it doesn't affect you much if you don't get the results you expect. But when matters of life and death are concerned, eternal life and death, then the risk becomes intolerable, because losing the bet becomes eternally catastrophic.

Logic and common sense become the best reason to give Christianity a try. If what atheist claim is true, we die and nothing happens, we simply cease to exist. But f what the Bible claims is true, the consequences are such that no one in his right mind would play games with it.

No, I am not afraid to change. I was an atheist and changed to being a Christian. Never had any reason to fear. But why should I change back to that which I have once been and found no sense in life? It is illogical.

Faith is not something that you can have and then lose. Faith is a gift of God which is bestowed upon a person and once is given, it can never be lost. Some may backslide for a while, but true faith is never lost.

I do not live in fear. I used to until I found the source of total assurance and certainty. Can I explain it in a manner in which you could believe it? No. It is something personal and you can only have it if you get it from the source, namely, God.

Logic and common sense become the best reason to give Christianity a try. If what atheist claim is true, we die and nothing happens, we simply cease to exist. But if what the Bible claims is true, the consequences are such that no one in his right mind would play games with it.

While you see believing what the Bible says as logical, I see it as illogical. What kind of all powerful deity would be so spiteful, vindictive, and petty as to send you to hell simply because you didn't follow the Christian path?

Who among us would punish their own children with an eternity of torment for not obeying them? You'd have to be the most self centered, unloving, uncaring individual to do something like that. Why would the creator of our world be more evil than us? That doesn't really stand up to logic, does it?

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That is the big misconception of most atheists and unbelievers: giving God human attributes. God is not a human being, with all the limitations and defects that humans have. Unless you cease to judge God from men's perspective and start judging humans from God's perspective, you are at a dead end. Open your mind, explore new things, experiment with new options, do whatever you can to free yourself from a rigid, self imposed world view that will make it hard to see that which is beyond the wall you have built around you.

Imorovan...

"That is the big misconception of most atheists and unbelievers: giving God human attributes."

You do realize that the very Bible you so adamantly believe in gives God human attributes, right? Are you saying that the Bible is wrong, or are you simply changing your argument as you see fit to try to avoid your logical inconsistencies?

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Wrong premise. The Bible doesn't give God human attributes, the Bible gives humans God's attributes. That is a big, BIG difference. But I am sure you knew that :)

You are missing the point. I'm simply using logic, as you did, to explain the illogic of this whole heaven/hell issue. Is it logical to worship a deity who is nastier that us? If God created humans, why did he make us better than him/her?

With all due respect, I think you're the one living behind a wall. Your religion is a wall of comfort to you, and that's fine. Just don't hand me the blueprints and expect me to build one for myself. I've studied most religions though the years, and I've taken away something positive from most of them. But I moved on.

You're like a drug addict that comes up to someone and says, "Here, take this! It'll make you feel great!"

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If ending this conversation was your goal, you have done good. When you get personal and insult me, you show no respect for any opinion other than yours. This conversation is over by your choice.

Have a good day!

No, Imorovan...it is not a "wrong premise." For you it is a "factual error."

Just now, I opened up a Bible to a random page and this is what I found:

"The Lord said, 'Jeremiah, do not pray for these people. Do not cry or pray on their behalf; do not plead with me, for I will not listen to you. Don't you see what they are doing in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem? The children gather firewood, the men build fires, and the women mix dough to bake cakes for the goddess they call the Queen of Heaven. They also pour out offerings of wine to other gods, in order to hurt me. But am I really the one they are hurting? No, they are hurting themselves and bringing shame on themselves. And so I, the Sovereign Lord, will pour out my fierce anger on this Temple. I will pour it out on people and animals alike, and even on the trees and the crops. My anger will be like a fire that no one can put out.'" - Jeremiah 7; 16-20.

The rest of this chapter and the next goes on to describe God's anger and his willful punishment. It describes how the people are to suffer under this punishment and God says they "will prefer to die rather than to go on living" because of this. They bake cakes and pour out wine - and God damns them for it and makes them suffer? He even punishes the plants and animals.

That sure sounds like a god with human attributes to me...not to mention a very vengeful and unmerciful god. It also brings up the question that if God claims to not be hurt by their actions, why did he become so angry and merciless towards the "evildoers"? It's a bit of a contradiction, don't you think?

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It is just you preaching in hopes of bringing one more into the flock. If you find my personal opinion of how you conduct yourself insulting, then perhaps you should alter the manner in which your present yourself.

You mentioned that you were an atheist prior to your current state of being. Would you mind sharing how you came into that prior state?

Anyone else who is not currently an atheist, but was at one point, please feel free to contribute as well. As you will still be speaking from your experience.

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Gentlemen,

Each of you is capable of throwing some pretty serious slams to the another's passionate argument. At this time I am asking you to refrain from further doing so to each other.

You all have raised some beautiful points and the last thing anyone should want would be to have all your efforts result in a deleted/banned comments section.

Please continue to share on the topic of how you came to your current values.

Sincerely,

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