Child Killer/Rapist Becomes First Person to be Executed in Florida Since 2006 Botched Lethal Injection.

how anyone could do that to an innocent child.

I agree with your sentiments on that sorry excuse for a human being. I think people like him ought to suffer greatly before they are executed. He should have to go through exactly what he did to the child - then he'd know just how despicable he truly is.

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Wow..I never thought this would happen. But, here it is. Publius is finally in complete agreement with what is being said. :-))
I should give you +10.

Well, I agree too. I have a story to tell too, that happened recently. Am going to write a byte about it. Watch out for the story of how I caught a child molester and what happened thereafter!

I'm pretty darn sure I'm not allowed to say what I would have had happen to that sorry sack of @#$%

Losing Weight and Feeling Great!
A Day in the Life of a Pagan Parent
The Funtabulous Stuff of the 80's

It's like my maternal grandmother generally says in times like this, "I'll tell you how to reduce violent crime! Do exactly to the perpetrator what s/he did to the victim! I'll bet those statistics will go down quick!"

Losing Weight and Feeling Great!
A Day in the Life of a Pagan Parent
The Funtabulous Stuff of the 80's

LOL, I take it he doesn't agree very often. ;)

I will definitely look for that byte!

Losing Weight and Feeling Great!
A Day in the Life of a Pagan Parent
The Funtabulous Stuff of the 80's

statistics on such crimes as above would not go down, these people are psychopaths or mentally ill in some other form they don't think about consequences or they don't care abotu them.

However, a practical problem with the principle "do to the perpetrator exactly as she did to the victim" is that you would need an equally sick and dangerous individual to actuall carry out the penalty. Would you do that do another person? regardless of the perpetrators actions, what would that make you if you were the one chosen to punish him?

the statistics would not go down, any more then I can know that they would, considering we're not doing that. And, I would say that some would definitely reconsider, depending on the crime in question. I was referring to all kinds of violent crime, when I quoted my grandmother. The last time I remember her saying those exact words was when a gay teenager was killed by being tied to a truck and dragged to his death.

I was also speaking in terms of the way the criminal should be killed, which negates the raping and kidnapping part of the equation. Not that I would cry if he were to be raped violently by a fellow inmate. As sick as it may seem to you, I would feel that justice had been served in such an instance, even if it were in a very unconventional way (via a prisoner, under no orders). A kind of sense that the universe had maintained a semblance of cosmic order would fill me, and I would be far more "zen."

So, I'm not actually talking about doing to the perpetrator EXACTLY as they did to the victim, I'm talking about killing them in EXACTLY the same fashion (i.e. the felon strangled someone, they die via some kind of strangulation. A hanging where the knot wasn't in the proper place to instantly break the neck would suffice I'm sure).

Delving more into the hypothetical situation you bring up... I can say with a high degree of certainty that if the person had done something like that to MY child? I'd probably do much worse to them. Much, much worse. And, I would do so gleefully and proudly. Again, you may think that's sick, and that's really okay with me. But, you asked what I think that would make me? A mom. Ever get between a mother bear and her cubs? Same thing. And, the mauling wouldn't be pretty. But, perhaps I'm just entirely too overprotective of a mother? I'm okay with that. I think that all mothers should be overprotective of their children, to a fault.

Losing Weight and Feeling Great!
A Day in the Life of a Pagan Parent
The Funtabulous Stuff of the 80's

First of all, lack of sufficient penalty is not an actual cause of violent crime. the real causes is to be found elsewhere. I come from a country with a lot less violent crime than you find in the united states, yet our penalties are a lot milder for these same crimes.

Anyway, what you're describing here is revenge and not justice. Your starting point for giving out punishment accompanies the emotional response to a terrible crime, and this is understandable. But, this is not justice. It's revenge. And justice is not revenge even if you get a emotional sense of justice through an revengeful act. However, you say death by strangulation for a strangler and so on. How about a guy that killed his victims by churning them trough a woodchipper? How would you kill that guy? It's one think to think about what you would like to do this people, to actually do it is different. If someone did this to my children I would also want to hurt them in the worst way possible, but this would be revenge an not justice.

And justice, and it would. Is it more akin to vengeance? Probably. Definitely, in the case of it happening to one of my own children, heaven forbid.

Let's look at how webster defines justice vs. vengeance.

Justice = the maintenance or administration of what is just especially by the impartial adjustment of conflicting claims or the assignment of merited rewards or punishments

vengeance = punishment inflicted in retaliation for an injury or offense

Because I feel the punishment would be merited, given the actions of the offender in question, and after having received a fair trial that resulted in a conviction, having found no "reasonable doubt" - I would consider it justice, by definition, to doll out a punishment befitting the crime in question.

A person who rapes and murders a little boy does not merit, regardless of emotional involvement, a quiet, virtually painless death. Nor does that person's actions merit a last meal of anything they wish, nor does it merit any kind of respect. The idea that "justice" means answering violence with respect, dignity, and the assurance that no suffering shall be had does not correlate with the actual definition of justice, because the person's actions do not merit such mercy, kindness, etc.

But, yes, what I would do to someone who did such a thing to MY child? THAT would be vengeance, and I would feel good about it. Of course, I also would have snapped entirely, so...

Yes, I know I am not a bear, literally. It was an analogy, a simile.

The real cause of an offenders sickness may lie outside of the realm of adequate punishment. However, there are individuals who engage in violent crime because they, much like my children, believe that any possible punishment they might receive would be worth doing what it is they wish to do. Others are actually hoping to be caught and killed, to go down in the history books. Still others are trying to see how much they can get away with before they have to bite the bullet.

In any event ~ I say put on something to protect yourself from the blood bath, and throw the guy in the wood chipper. But, I'm not feeling merciful today... at all. Perhaps midol would be in order.

Losing Weight and Feeling Great!
A Day in the Life of a Pagan Parent
The Funtabulous Stuff of the 80's

you throw some crazy killer into a woodchipper.
Anyway,
pangeacat said:

"The idea that "justice" means answering violence with respect, dignity, and the assurance that no suffering shall be had does not correlate with the actual definition of justice"

nobody, including me, has stated that justice is synonymous with respecting violence. I've said that justice and revenge are two separate things serving two different purposes and revenge as motivation for punishment has no place in the justice system of a civilized society. (I'm not claiming that the death penalty is based on revenge but your claims that the killer should be terminated in exactly the same fashion as his victim is based on vengeance and not justice or perhaps retributive justice, except this is your personal opinion of what an appropriate punishment would be)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retributive_justice
I agree to some extent with the retributionist view on justice,but these definitions are just that,definitions, in real life practice they are by no means absolute. In the case of this child killer i FEEL he should be executed in the same fashion as his victims, perhaps even worse. However, I don't think the justice system should do that. Simply because it is not doable in terms of practicality, and it has some moral implications that would make it too complicated. Death for death is enough. woodchipper for woodchipper, chainsaw for chainsaw, axe for axe, it gets complicated and brutal especially if the victims family is to watch. Would you like to watch anyone get massacred with a chainsaw? again, who would do this?

Pangeacat said:"Yes, I know I am not a bear, literally. It was an analogy, a simile."

I know you know you're not a bear, it was a follow up to your analogy and an attempt to make a joke... literally :-)

Revenge is not the motivation for punishment. Punishment is the motivation for justice and is decided by the legal system, not the individual. I've explained this to you before, Martin. By simply repeating your faulty premise that justice is revenge and our system is flawed because we employ strict penalties does not make it so.

*If you're interested in reading my articles, Click Here.

This is from one of my other comments on this post directed at Pangeacat"I'm not claiming that the death penalty is based on revenge but your claims that the killer should be terminated in exactly the same fashion as his victim is based on vengeance and not justice or perhaps retributive justice, except this is your personal opinion of what an appropriate punishment would be"

I'm not saying your system is flawed and that justice is revenge, the only flaw would be that innocent people are still being executed but that has nothing to do with the nature of the punishment. My view is that as soon as punishment becomes personal we're talking about revenge. Death for death, as your justice system work today, if retributive justice is the motivation it doesn't need to be expanded to the killer being terminated in exactly the same fashion as pangeacat suggests. That would bring the punishment one step closer to revenge. It's not like this today and I don't belioeve it will ever be , because this is an extremely impractical solution.

Here is the link to my story:

http://www.xomba.com/how_i_caught_a_child_molester_and_what_happened_thereafter

While he was in prison, I hope he was treated "well" by his fellow inmates. That's the least he deserved. Good riddance, more oxygen for everyone else.

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I kinda liked your earlier one, sorry no offence.

It made you look very "Angelic". The present one makes you look very scholarly type! Of course, that's OK, if that's the look you want! (But, I kind of miss the earlier Avatar) I will wonder where Pangeacat disappeared!