Divorce And The Innocent Victims

It encouraged women to 'stand up, be a man and get a job'; which made inflation grow to such an extent that women were more-and-more 'in need' of paying work ... more-and-more women became sufficient unto themselves, needing men less-and-less, leading to more-and-more 'islands in the stream'-relationships.

Due to my traumatic brain injury (and a little to my parents' divorce years afterward), part of me is stuck in 'childhood' forever---an entirely-internal part, the part that believes people are GOOD (like faith in God, it can't be suitably reasoned-out!)

---Buddha tells Uncle MythMan, "Flood the Open Eyes with the Truth, for as Long as You Exist!" Help Him Spread the Truth (about stuff) Here!

...by staying together when you can't stand being together. Families can deal with divorce and many of them do, and after having talked to way, way, too many sons and daughters of parents who cannot be happy together who FINALLY split up, I can tell you that most of these kids say, "Thank god they're finally splitting up!"

Nevermind how often it's the case that one parent is clearly irresponsible or emotionally or physically abusive. Most of the people I've ever known who get divorced with kids end up finding a happier, more stable household for their child when they remarry.

The actual problems you mention are not problems of divorce itself, but of failing to deal sufficiently with the emotional issues that come with divorce.

"Personally I feel that a couple should be allowed a window period of a couple of years after marriage to make up their minds whether they are or not in love with the spouse. During this period they should not be allowed to have a child. If they want the couple can part ways during this period."

I agree with Laurenvork here.

Most problems in a marriage start usually only after a child is born or enters the family. It doesn't matter after how many years the child is born. That is the true test of a relationship. Staying together alone without kids, a couple may get along very well and not have any "adjustment" problems. However, There are a lot of changes that come immediately after a kid is born that demands full attention from the "new mother" and thereby neglecting the spouse's demands. That's when all the adjustment problems start. Besides not every individual, man or woman, is a perfect parent the moment a child is born. Some take it in their stride, and are prepared mentally, while others just struggle to do their best.

So, you can't really say that a couple is "now" ready to have children and live together "happily" for the rest of their lives! That's not true at all!

Besides, you never know if the child that will be born will be "normal"? What then? There is a lot of stress and psychological trauma when an abnormal child is born and it could take a toll on the relationship between the parents.

I think you are getting confused with the real meaning of the word "Commitment" here. Here is the definition of the word

"An agreement to perform a particular activity at a certain time in the future under certain circumstances."

This content can be found on the following page:
http://www.investorwords.com/cgi-bin/getword.cgi?id=969&term=commitment

Or
1. [n] - a message that makes a pledge

2. [n] - an engagement by contract involving financial obligation

3. [n] - the act of binding yourself (intellectually or emotionally) to a course of action

4. [n] - the official act of consigning a person to confinement (as in a prison or mental hospital)
http://www.webdictionary.co.uk/definition.php?query=commitment

Like any other contract that you make, this too is a contract or agreement between two individuals that can be broken in a court of law - Called "Divorce", if for any of the legitimate reasons you are not able to fulfill the said terms of the contract.

I personally feel that the only way two individuals can stay together happily is if their "souls" connect with each other.

"In short I consider it an act of cowardice."

I am sorry, taprial, but I disagree on this completely.

On the contrary, I think it takes a huge amount of courage on the part of both, the man and the woman, to realize that their relationship is over and to move on with their lives. Separation can be traumatic to all the parties concerned and it takes a lot of courage to pick up the pieces and rebuild a life all over again! More so for a woman, I think!

This is the first time i have seen kids and favors being used together in a single breath. Any parent who considers doing anything for his/her own kids as a favor is definitely having a tough time with the kids.

"you can't stand being together." That was the whole point of the article. Since one is married, i take it that they could more than stand each other when they married and then suddenly one fine day after producing a brood for oneself, 'you can't stand each other'. Why punish the kids for the error of your heat of passion or judgment?

Families can deal with divorce and many of them do, and after having talked to way, way, too many sons and daughters of parents who cannot be happy together who FINALLY split up, I can tell you that most of these kids say, "Thank god they're finally splitting up!"
I love these parents you talk about. They made sure that their kids grew up and were sensible enough to understand relationships before they gave up on each other and in turn their kids. That is what i am saying, don't abandon your kids till they understand what is happening and why. When the kids are capable of saying, "Thank god, they're finally splitting up!" is probably the right time to quit. But i hope these kids you know understand that their parents continued despite being unhappy for their sake.

one parent is clearly irresponsible or emotionally or physically abusive.
First things first, You can't clap with one hand, can you? In most cases the blame or the fault lies with both the parties. We normally think that only one side was to be blamed because we are tuned to take sides and end up listening only one side of the story.

Most of the people I've ever known who get divorced with kids end up finding a happier, more stable household for their child when they remarry.
Do you think they had any choice? Another divorce and the person will get labeled as a serial divorcee. That fact coupled with the extra effort that a person puts in the marriage because of the earlier failure makes it seem like the person and his/her kids have found a stable home.

A child is not capable of dealing sufficiently with the emotional issues of divorce or the problems of divorce itself and that is the reason i am advocating a delay in the divorce till the time the child is capable.

Bare Essentials

"This is the first time i have seen kids and favors being used together in a single breath. Any parent who considers doing anything for his/her own kids as a favor is definitely having a tough time with the kids."

Um, it's a common turn of phrase used to refer to a situation in which the act of trying to do what you think is best for someone is really doing them more harm.

I really think you're arguing with me just for the sake of arguing and because it's me. The fact that you would even suggest that abused spouses should look to their own fault in the situation kinda makes me not care what you have to say, but I'm a glutton for punishment.

"Do you think they had any choice? Another divorce and the person will get labeled as a serial divorcee. That fact coupled with the extra effort that a person puts in the marriage because of the earlier failure makes it seem like the person and his/her kids have found a stable home."

So your contention here is that you know all of the people in my life and their situations better than I do and that the only reason they're staying with their second spouse is that they're worried about what people will think? Wow.

All of them made mistakes about the first person they chose to marry and ended up with spouses, both male and female, who were in some way abusive to them AND in many cases abusive and neglectful to their own kids! Some people are serial divorcees, but some people just marry rashly and then approach their choice of a second marriage with more wisdom and make a good, sustainable choice. All of the kids that I know in these situations have formed a closer and more secure bond with their stepparent than they ever did with their biological one.

"A child is not capable of dealing sufficiently with the emotional issues of divorce or the problems of divorce itself and that is the reason i am advocating a delay in the divorce till the time the child is capable."

It's always hard, but you're being naive if you assume that there are no situations in which having your parents stay together is harder and more damaging in the long run.

Keeping my personal opinion to myself about divorce, I will tell you that as a child/ young teenager I would pray that my parents would get a divorce. All I wanted was for them to be happy and they weren't. I think you have to give children credit for being able to sense the tension or know when something just isn't right. Sometimes seeing your parents in pain can be more traumatic than having a new step parent or sharing holidays.

Every situation is different and to say one way is good for everyone doesn't seem fair. You owe it to your children to give it all you have but at some point you just might have to admit that divorce is the answer.

I don't see myself as a victim and I certainly don't feel abandoned. My son has 6 grandparents that love him more than life itself. I feel that everything happens for a reason and my step parents and step sisters are in my life to help me and my son be all that we are meant to be. Without them I wouldn't be me.

Angel
http://robinettedesign.com
http://robinettedesign.blogspot.com

"Personally I feel that a couple should be allowed a window period of a couple of years after marriage to make up their minds whether they are or not in love with the spouse. During this period they should not be allowed to have a child. If they want the couple can part ways during this period. Once a child is borne there should be a ban on divorce till the time the child is of an age where he can understand, relationships and their complexities and when he is ready to handle the trauma a divorce creates."

What then about kids born outside of marriage? they would be illegal?

Personally I don't think this is something that the government should interfere with. People will have kids and they will make bad choices regardless. Love can't be regulated by law. Another problem is how you would measure if the child is ready. Wouldn't it also be worse for the child to be forced by law to live with parents that don't get along.

"I feel that everything happens for a reason..."

My fiancee never would have been born is his mom hadn't divorced her first husband and married my future father-in-law, so I would tend to agree with you on this one.

There are far too many people in this world that believe that laws should exist for the sake of forcing everyone else to make the same choices about life that they make, regardless of their individual situations.

Marriage is, technically, a contract made between two people, the government, and God (if the service has any mention of a deity). Writing from the spiritual aspect, I “should” believe, as a good Christian, that divorce is “always” wrong, but that is not my personal view. I believe a marriage should only be terminated if there is physical or “serious” emotional harm involved. Emotional abuse is defined differently depending on the situation and the sensitivity of the personal receiving the demonstrative actions. Marriage is supposed to be a life-long commitment, but is now tried on and discarded like clothes at the department store. There probably wouldn’t be so many marriages if there wasn’t such an easy way out (I don’t mean that divorce is a piece of cake, I refer to marriages begun with the people thinking they can “quit” anytime they think it isn’t working well for them).

I found your xombite on the list of top-rated posts this morning, before it was pushed off early in the afternoon. I just found it again by running a search. I would have posted my comment this morning, but my computer froze up; by the time I got it rebooted, I couldn’t see your post on the top-rated posts list.

I find it rather a coincidence that you wrote about this topic, when just the other day I wrote:

Rant On How Kids Are Raised These Days – Discussing Education, Broken Homes, Parental Responsibility, ETC.

I just kept thinking about kids I’ve encountered over my lifetime that no one really bothered about. I want children so much, but the physically debilitating disease, Fibromialgia, that I have would prevent me from properly taking care of a son or daughter properly at this time. Six years ago I could not walk due to the disease (and other complications), but I am doing much better now (but not good enough). I hope to have my own children in a couple years. Meanwhile, I do my best to look after the kids within my circle of influence as best I can.

Before the disease hit me (crippling me within one week), causing me to have to take a medical leave of absence from college, I was studying therapeutic riding and equestrian business management. I worked with children from broken homes, other emotional disabilities, mental disabilities, and physical disabilities around horses, which is what therapeutic riding is all about. You’d be amazed how much shy abused children will open up around animals. Try reading this essay I wrote to get a feel for therapeutic riding and how it can help any child with a physical or emotional difficulty:

Therapeutic Riding: Horses Help People with Physical and Emotional Difficulties (Essay)

When a man and woman meet, they REMAIN separate branches. Even if they get married and mingle their blood together in any number of ways, they're STILL SEPARATE.

In the relationship, they direct their branches' growth to twirl around each other like a braid. The braid is of course stronger as another one- or seven branches are twirled into it---more-difficult to direct, yes; but stronger.

As one of the original branches sees that the other original one can't/won't properly direct itself and the future branches, the one directs its twirling elsewhere.

---Uncle MythMan Enlightens You Money Here! Xombies Enlighten on Money, Love, God ...Turn Xombie & Help!

"Responsibility"---you commit a crime, you buy a 'responsibility' to repay to the world. You enter a marriage-contract with a man, you buy the 'responsibility' to be "his woman."

His failure to "be your man" is not a condition of the contract; the only condition I know is 'as long as you both shall live,' not 'as long as you feel that he's fulfilling his contract.'

That responsibility IS a 'ball-&-chain,' yes; but it's one you gladly accept on the one condition (and if you can't live like that, then you should have thought of that before you agreed to it!)

---Uncle MythMan Enlightens You on Money Here! Xombies Enlighten on Money, Love, God ...Turn Xombie & Help!

Every marriage goes through periods of dissent (seemingly-endless for their durations), and--until resolution--the dissenting parties LEARN TO LIVE WITH IT.

That goes especially for children!

---Uncle MythMan Enlightens You on Money Here! Xombies Enlighten on Money, Love, God ...Turn Xombie & Help!

So, we get the actual child of divorced parents weighing in on the pro-divorce rights side, and what do the anti-divorce people in this debate do? Start talking about the "marriage contract" instead.

Sort of reminds me of the "weapons of mass destruction" being brushed under the rug in favor of "Iraqi liberation."

... you would even suggest that abused spouses should look to their own fault in the situation ...

Okay, suppose a woman is driven to suicide. Who pulls the trigger?

So your contention here is that you know all of the people in my life and their situations better than I do and that the only reason they're staying with their second spouse is that they're worried about what people will think?

That Y-word is dangerous, makes people take things personal ... me too, I know. I think taprial's point there was not 'whether you fit the typicality,' but rather that "convenient divorce" causes the typicality in the first place.

... you're being naive if you assume that there are no situations in which having your parents stay together is harder and more damaging in the long run.

I KNOW it's harder and more-damaging to work on something than it is to not-work on something. (that's why they call it 'work' and not 'floating dreamily on a puffy cloud of light-blue.') Not-working is natural; you know what else is natural? NOT GETTING MARRIED IN THE FIRST PLACE!

---Uncle MythMan Enlightens You on Money Here! Xombies Enlighten on Money, Love, God ...Turn Xombie & Help!

I was/am 'an actual child of divorced parents' too (but for the fact that I'm an 'adult' lol).

I may be 'anti-divorce'; but I'm mostly anti-'wrong marriage in the first place.'

If a tree falls between you and your goal; do you grit your teeth and climb over the tree? or do you turn around and hope that you'll find a more-convenient goal somewhere else (not even caring that the first goal NEEDS YOU to find it!)

---Uncle MythMan Enlightens You on Money Here! Xombies Enlighten on Money, Love, God ...Turn Xombie & Help!

shawnandlori said that "as a good Christian, that divorce is “always” wrong," but I'll bring up a point that has often been made here: Jesus Himself said that 'divorce is always wrong UNLESS one party commits adultery.'

He also said that 'if you look on another with desire in your heart, you've already "sold yourself" to them' ("danced the lambada," "done the deed," "mutated the fetus," whatev).

Marriage is thus 'a glad conviction to life imprisonment for your mind'---oh, you can *commit* the suicide; but you'll never get away alive!

I think of the first marriage; and remember that though the two were 'the only two there,' they weren't 'committed' until they shared 'that meal' ... Eve sharing because she felt it would be good for Adam, Adam sharing because nothing would be good without Eve ... I mention it at http://is.gd/3yM5

---Uncle MythMan Enlightens You on Money Here! Xombies Enlighten on Money, Love, God ...Turn Xombie & Help!

Ban marriage - that will get the divorce rate down.
Remove all laws and taxes related to marriage - that will remove the distortions on how people relate to each other.
There is no way to remove marriage as a religious act, so you can keep that.

As for children, does the research quoted distinguish between the harm done during the failing marriage compared with after the divorce? Two different things.

From my experience, children need an environment where they feel loved, protected and encouraged. That can be with both, one or neither biological DNA donors.

Money for your Thoughts - join now
Epi-BV

"I was/am 'an actual child of divorced parents' too (but for the fact that I'm an 'adult' lol).:

I'm sorry that your experience with divorce was so unpleasant, but I have never tried to argue that divorce is never unpleasant for the children. Instead, I've been refuting this absolutist idea that it's ALWAYS bad for the kids and never in their best interest. So your bad experience does nothing to refute my point, while the other poster's experience of divorce as the right choice for her family proves it. Sorry.

And look up the definition of "ad-hominem." Pointing out that other people are avoiding the argument doesn't qualify.

"I may be 'anti-divorce'; but I'm mostly anti-'wrong marriage in the first place.'"

How your parents handled their divorce, and you, is your business. How other people handle their relationships is not. Anti-divorce sentiment is standard authoritarianism and has its roots in theocracy and patriarchy.

I happen to think that if we retain a legal definition of "family," we should allow people to retain the right to legally proclaim that a non-blood relative be extended those rights. While we're at it, why not give people the right to legally disconnect blood relatives from that category? Let legal "kin" be a matter of choice.

I mean, you remember how alcohol seemed to taste BETTER before you were 21, right?

That's the way marriage ought to be; you're together not because you're s`posta be, but because YOU discovered that you SHOULD be ... and that's not "oughta do what mommy/daddy says"-should, but 'don't FEEL SO GOOD any other way'-should!

---Uncle MythMan Enlightens You on Money Here! Xombies Enlighten on Money, Love, God ...Turn Xombie & Help!

... But now I've got to shorten this to 'comment-length.' (for the full statements, see here.)

in short: DON'T 'GET MARRIED,' JUST '"BE" MARRIED'---i.e. start living together ... looked ad hominem up ... Murder IS justified as the extreme-last option of self-defense, yes; but it's the option that flows most-directly against Life. (And yes, divorce ~is~ murder ... I explain here.)

---Uncle MythMan Enlightens You on Money Here! Xombies Enlighten on Money, Love, God ...Turn Xombie & Help!

People make bad choices ... the entire principle upon which divorce is based! So long as we continue to allow them to make bad choices and to leave them unpaid-for, our nation cannot HOPE to retain valid honor!

People need a third-person to name the 'kin' to which they belong! A third-person with no 'self'. I don't know if *I* can do it, but I'm pretty-sure UNCLE MYTHMAN CAN! lol

---Uncle MythMan Enlightens You on Money Here! Xombies Enlighten on Money, Love, God ...Turn Xombie & Help!

To humilate another poster by turning your response to their argument into a new xombyte. I really think that's hitting below the belt.

"Humiliate"? "Appropriate"? "Think"?

The 'new xombyte' was the response I had drafted HERE and (AS I SAID) posted there IN ORDER TO KEEP THE COMMENT SHORT!

(Not 'appropriate,' Not 'comfortable,' Not 'negative or positive'; SHORT!)

Should I be sorry for feeling that your opinions are equal to my own? Should I remember to treat your words like the moanings of a slave from now on?

It really hurts me that you think my reasonings to be such unworthy drivel that 'mentioning the fact that you inspire it' is like 'defiling your sanctuary.'

---Uncle MythMan Enlightens You on Money Here! Xombies Enlighten on Money, Love, God ...Turn Xombie & Help!