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Is it too much to ask?

posted August 2, 2008 - 9:36am
Is it too much to ask?

Why is it so hard for an "atheist" or a non believer make a simple effort and give it a try to discover something that could potentially change their minds and their lives? Oops. dumb me, but of course: change, to some people, is utterly scary, especially when the change has the potential to bring down the whole unbelief structure the person feels so comfortable with.

But honestly, what's there to lose? Why not give it a try? I can assure you that, if your intention is honest and sincere, God will not fail to manifest Himself to you. Excuses like "I am not interested", it's a waste of time", why should I do it is I don't believe in it" will always stand in the way.

If an atheist is sincerely looking for evidence, then why not go to the source of the claim of believers? Why the natural curiosity of the human being is not applied in this case?

I know of many people who have come to a point where they simply took a step of faith and simply asked "God, if you are real, if you are what the Christians claim you are, give me a sign, make me see and understand why they believe what they believe and why do they claim all those things they claim about you? I don't know whether you exist or not, I have not seen any evidence of your existence, but I understand that I am not in possession of all the knowledge in the universe, but Christians claim that you ARE, that you EXIST and that you are a LIVING presence in their lives. Reveal yourself to me and help me understand"

Is it too much to ask?

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Author: lmorovan
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Comments

As Idlewild said...

pangeacat - Mon, 2008-4-8 9:02 am
Most people I know who do not believe in the Christian deity did in fact try, for a very long time in some cases. Many Christians, of course, attempt to discredit the fact that they did try and they were genuine in their attempt. My guess is that they attempt to discredit this attempt because it's just too much to think that there are some people who can give it their all and still end up not believing. I was one such person. I tried for years. I have nothing against the church within which I was raised (actually, I still sing in the choir, whenever they are in need of another singer, and the music is quite moving for me). I thought, as a child, that there was nothing else that could possibly be true, as I was raised to believe there weren't even other options out there. Yet, I never was able to "find God" (at least, not THAT version of God). In my teen years, I finally gave up on asking that God to come to me. Most would say I held out for far too long. I was indeed genuine in my desire to find him, but he just wasn't there for me. So, I went searching for something else, something that made sense to me, correlated with my personal experiences, and didn't leave me with an empty feeling. Eventually, I found that something. I don't claim to have all the answers, but I am happy with where I am spiritually and mentally. I'd tell you more about my spiritual journey, and where it led me and why, but as it doesn't have to do with winding up at the Christian version of deity, I doubt you sincerely care. Losing Weight and Feeling Great! A Day in the Life of a Pagan Parent The Funtabulous Stuff of the 80's

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"But faith is potentially

Martin123 - Mon, 2008-4-8 7:43 am
Imorovan said: "But faith is potentially dangerous to a scientist because it would generally discredit him and his work, and most likely endanger his employment" It is actually the other way around. Faith is not in a position to discredit or disprove anything. that is not the nature of faith. There will always be a need for scientists, they have nothing to fear, it is faith and organized religion which is rapidly loosing ground and that is probably why you are so desperately and contradictively trying to defending it. I'd turn that argument against you and say: "But SCIENCE is potentially dangerous to a religious authority, such as a priest or minister, because it would generally discredit him and his work, and most likely endanger his employment" am I wrong? Well if I am wrong you must be to.. it's the exact same same argument. It just did a 180... Anyway this argument is beside the point and when using it we are both commiting a fallacy called a circumstancial ad hominem . That means the argument is not adressing the real issue but rather the hypothetical consequense should any of us prove the opponent wrong. you can read about it here if it's not to much to ask http://www.opifexphoenix.com/reasoning/fallacies/circumstantialah.htm I admit I'm also too quick to use this argument sometimes because it is very tempting and apparently effective way to make your opponent look like a hypocrite which he may or may not be.

Your assummptions about

Martin123 - Mon, 2008-4-8 4:39 am
You seem to have no problem with denying proven scientific facts when it doesn't fit into your belief system. I recall you questioning evolution in favor of intelligent design? you seem to ignore the fact that many aspects of evolutionary science is indeed scientifically proven. Why? is there an agenda here? Do you set the scientific agenda? Do I smell a slight bias? Anyway,your assummptions about scientist are simply wrong. It seems to me your attacking your opponents because you ran out of rational arguments to defend your own point of view. It's not the scientists job to prove or disprove the existence of god any more than it is his job to prove or disprove Santa Claus, it is not a scientific topic. "But scientists, especially the atheistic ones, will never venture to explore and investigate any phenomenon that cannot be explained" That's an oxymoronic sentence, how can you prove and explain something that you already stated cannot be explained. If that is your starting point why even bother?? On the other hand science will explore topics that are of scientific interest. The existence of God is not of scientific interest because, as you say yourself,it cannot be proven or disproven. It also has no useful purpose to explore this topic. Dismissing people as close minded because they don't agree with you is not particularly open minded of you! Anyway, science venture into the unknown all the time, need I remind you of NASA's recent journey to mars? Similarly medical science explore phenomena that cannot yet be explained all the time. The urge for knowledge is the driving force behind science. In layman terms it is called curiosity. Religion and faith tends to kill the urge for knowledge because everything is already conveniently layed out for you.

Martin

lmorovan - Mon, 2008-4-8 2:29 am
I can speak for myself even as I know very few who disagree with me in this: persons of faith are always open minded and curious regarding anything the science has to offer. After all, how can proven scientific facts be denied? Science is but another manifestation of the intelligence that the Creator of the Universe has endowed mankind with. Nothing in the Bible ever prohibits the acquisition of knowledge and understanding of the whole Creation. On the contrary. But scientists, especially the atheistic ones, will never venture to explore and investigate any phenomenon that cannot be explained. That is not a scientific attitude, it is close minded isolation. A scientist, a true scientist is curious and will never discard any topic only because it cannot be explained or verified. Curiosity is the main catalyst of a scientist, and an open mind to phenomenons that cannot be explained are an interesting challenge. But for that, a scientist must open his mind and eyes to possibilities that escape his five senses. That is, an honest and sincere scientist. Nothing science proves or discovers can bring down the faith of a true believer. On the contrary, it reinforces the beauty and veracity of everything the Word of God claims. But faith is potentially dangerous to a scientist because it would generally discredit him and his work, and most likely endanger his employment. So, scientists have a strong incentive to deny and reject anything that has to do with faith.

To read my posts and articles click here:

http://www.xomba.com/xombyte/lmorovan

Why is it so hard for a

Martin123 - Sun, 2008-3-8 4:11 pm
Why is it so hard for a religious person or a believer to make a simple effort and give it a try to discover something that could potentially change their minds and their lives? Oops. dumb me, but of course: change, to some people, is utterly scary, especially when the change has the potential to bring down the whole belief structure the person feels so comfortable with.

lmorovan :)

LadyKenai - Sat, 2008-2-8 2:06 pm
Maybe some people in thier ("atheist" or a non believers) lives went too far over the edge of religion and they got turned off right away by it? Maybe they did try, like idlewild said, and it just didn't work for them? Maybe they are afraid that if they don't live by this "bible" things will happen to them? Maybe they are doing just fine without it? I do admit some are afraid to leave thier "comfort zone", most everyone has a sort of comfort zone I believe. Is that wrong? I think if we keep asking ourselves and others questions, maybe we will find the right answer, it is always good to have on open mind and "NEVER" stop asking questions. -------------------------------------------------------- If you would like to chat about Xomba or anything you want, join here: http://home.wanadoo.nl/mqs/ladykenai/chat.html ↑ Grab this Headline Animator

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irvingl2001

lmorovan - Sat, 2008-2-8 1:00 pm
There is no reason to get offended or personal about these issues. All I am doing is expressing my opinions, views and understanding. I do not expect or pretend anyone to share my beliefs. That never was nor will it be my intention. Following the topic of this thread, I never asked anyone to do anything he/she is not willing to do. I made a suggestion. But I can notice and feel your resistance to anything that could potentially endanger your ways of thinking that you rely upon as if they are the indispensable foundation of your life. Nothing new there. As I said, people are afraid of change, even if the change may be potentially good and positive.

To read my posts and articles click here:

http://www.xomba.com/xombyte/lmorovan

Is it too much to ask that

irvingl2001 - Sat, 2008-2-8 12:48 pm
Is it too much to ask that you respect other people's decisions to live their lives as they see fit? I know you can't accept that not everyone is going to share your beliefs. I know that at least part of you insists on acting in this way out of a sincere desire to make people's lives better. But yes, it is too much to ask a person to conform to your way of thinking and your beliefs if s/he simply doesn't believe your way.

Magic tricks

Idlewild - Sat, 2008-2-8 12:30 pm
I wasn't talking about people expecting to see acts of magic or miracles to be convinced that God exists.... I was referring to people who have made honest attempts to believe in particular religious beliefs, and have decided they didn't believe in it, or couldn't make the leap of faith required. > "God can never fail to respond. If He could fail you, you would be the first person in history that He has failed to respond to. ." "Success" or "failure" is in the eyes of the person experiencing it, is it not? You may feel that God will never "fail" anyone, but how can you know that for a fact? > "Ans, honestly, I don't believe you are that important as to become the exception of the rule" I actually wasn't talking about myself in this discussion. As I said in my first comment, I was just speaking about comments I've read on Xomba, and about the experiences of people I know.

Idlewild

lmorovan - Sat, 2008-2-8 12:02 pm
God will never fail to respond to anyone seeking Him with honesty ad sincerity. But He is not a magician that you can ask Him to do a trick or two to prove His existence. The search muse be genuine and serious. God can never fail to respond. If He could fail you, you would be the first person in history that He has failed to respond to. Ans, honestly, I don't believe you are that important as to become the exception of the rule.

To read my posts and articles click here:

http://www.xomba.com/xombyte/lmorovan

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