I too was a stay at home mom, now a stay at home grandmother. I raised four of my own, three boys and a girl. I also intermittenly helped raise my sisters 3 had them several times when she took off an left them she kept them on a yo yo. The state nearly took them from her permantly but she arrived before the court order and wisked them off to another state clear across the country. Where she foisted them off on her in laws for years. She treated them like toys on a shelf. Today she cannot understand why one has been in and out of prison and why her daughter's call themselves "hustlers" They all have kids. Their kids all have a different daddy or mother. My brother has a son, he favored his three daughters but treated his son like something on the bottom of his shoe. He often would bring him to stay with us summers and half the school year. His son would come to us taking Ridalin. We would take away most the sugar including prepackaged sugar coated cereals. He would eat hot oatmeal or farina, pancakes, eggs and more ( We had a farm with goats, milk cow and chickens: He never once in the 5 summers and part of each school year EVER took ridalen. He would calm down, yes he got spankings when needed and they were effective. His grades would come up from D's and F's to C's and B's. Then my brother would come during the holidays. His grades would slide back down to D's and F's. My sister's Son too allegedly had ADHD we took the sugar away and he ate home cooked meals from scratch when he was with us. No pre-packaged foods full of all kinds of additives, chemicals and other preservitaves. A lot of those are the direct result of ADHD and ADD. There was no such thing as those modern day diseases, they are man created. I have seen kids over and over again taken off prepackaged convience foods, put on wholesome made from scratch foods and off the Ridalin and they are just fine. A smack on the butt does wonders if need. We have parents who make all kinds of excuses why their kid is misbehaved and won't mind. Much of it is YOU the parent. They pick up on all kinds of things you say and do or don't do. Do you threaten to punish or do you punish after threatening. Do you punish every single time or let some things slide sometimes because your too busy or tired etc. I had a son when he was age 4 he was naughty a lot now we have a 4 year old granddaughter who says "She is boss" You have to be consistant and you have to not only "IF" you spank or whatever form of discipline you attempt talk to them. Make sure you have their full attention. Make them look at you, listen, have them repeat back what you said to them. Make sure they understand the consequences. When you do disciline make sure they KNOW without a doubt even though you had to punish them that they are loved by you no matter what. Always cuddle and afterwards. I don't care how busy you are, if you work or don't work. You have to be consistant and you have to make sure your child understands you, knows there are consequences for his/her misbehavior and most of all that they know YOU LOVE them. If you don't then somewhere along the way society will punish them one way or another. Some children are harder to discipline that others, some are more aggressive and stubborn. But there is always a way that works. One my sons had an "Iron Butt" spanking did not do it for him. But he hated lectures and he got it. We made him listen, we would tell him things for an hour or more and he hated it but he learned, he would have to repeat what we said and tell us why we said it until he knew and knew would continue to lecture him again if need. He would not be allowed to play some special toy or watch a special movie or t.v show. Or maybe eat dessert. He screeched, carried on and through fits. He tried to hold his breath. We broke him of that quickly by throw a glass of cold water in his face. He tried it twice and found out he was going to get wet and cold doing it. When you say NO, mean it. DON'T give in period. Stand firm. It is hard with thier big round eyes looking at you with tears. But don't give in to it. If you don't find a way to control your child/ren they will control you. Each child is unique, what might work for one may not work for another. Sometimes different circumstances require different types of discipline. Make the punishment fit the deed. One of our sons was 8 and he stole candy from the store. We took him down and he had to give back what he stole, pay for what he passed out and was eaten from his piggy bank. The manager called the police. We knew the police man as well. he took our 8 year old son out to his squad car and set him in the back. The policeman told us he would be back in 30 minutes. The man drove him down to the jail, showed him the cells and prison bars and key. Told him this was where people went who stole things and did not learn to listen to their parents. My son never forgot it and he never stole any thing again. Sometimes it takes something like that to make children realize your serious and so is society. Before Ridalen and ADD and ADHD teachers were allowed to spank misbehaved children. Teachers no longer can do this. So now put them on drugs is the norm and it is unhealthy and dangerous. For how many centuries have people been spanked and no such thing as ADD or ADHD existed. It is a modern day made up excuse to let teachers and parents off the hook for thier inability to cope or discipline. I know we proved it several times with our nephews and now with 3 grandkids who have been misbehaved. Two are now past the stage of rebellion as much, they KNOW when they are punished they deserved it, they know they will consistantly get punished if they continue. The four your old granddaughter is learning the same thing. She screams, throws fits, demands, runs away to hide, steals money out of piggy banks. We keep consistantly spanking her or put her in a corner, or won't let her have dessert when she refuses to eat her other food. She is starting to get it slowly that when mom, dad, uncle or nana and papa say NO they mean it. For the lady who has the 4 year old son. You both need some counseling and maybe your husband does too. Did you say your husband works 70 hours a week. He needs to stop going after the "almighty dollar" and be a dad. Your son is angry daddy is not enough in his life for one, he resents you for it and blames you. I don't care how much money you "THINK" you need. THINK again. There are places you can cut back or even cut out. My husband and I lived on and raised 4 kids and partly raised 3 others on less than $20,000 a year. My daughter has 5 children, Their income today is $14,900. They make do or do without. Thrift stores, yard sales, the dollar store all help as do farmers markets and other things. There are ways to save. Fix food from scratch it is cheaper and healthier. To many people live on the edge and think they need something when it is really a "Want" not a real need. Being a parent at home is 1000 times more important than having lots of money and buying things for your kids. They would rather have your time and if you have a husband his time too. As my kids got old enough to earn money they did, first, mowing lawns and picking cherries, then delivering papers and finally in other ways. When they turned 14 we made them pay a little rent. We put it away for them for college. They learned to value what they had and appriciate it. Where there is a will, there is a way.

They're lazy and blame it on __________. They're irresponsible and blame it on __________. They're law-breaking and blame it on __________. It gives a bad name to __________. That's the way of the world.

No, those things weren't named yet, back then it was grouped in with 'hyper-activity', and I believe that can be caused by a number of things, not just ADD or ADHD. I do believe they exist...and I know people now, who I'm sure suffer from this and have just never been properly diagnosed...some don't care to find out, I think. I really screwed up in conveying my feelings and viewpoints in that post. What I meant in regard to these disorders, is that too many people blamed everything on that for awhile. Sometimes I think they are just out of control, for lack of discipline or attention at home, or problems at home, or because Mom feeds them too many hot dogs and candy, preservatives, fast food, and on and on....For a long time, everything was blamed on ADD, and they threw some Ridilan their way, or some sort of sedative, and expected that to 'fix them'. In recent years, I think they are getting a better handle on the whole thing, and being more cautious about handing this stuff out before they investigate all the possibilities. I certainly didn't mean to imply that these things don't exist at all. But I did come across that way...so again, I apologize. Boy, that'll learn me not to comment on kids when I'm in a pissy mood anyway...HA!! Apologies...

You're right Debbie, I was very rude...and for that I apologize. It's none of my business how you raise your boys. And I have all the respect in the world for you raising your boys, working at home, etc. I agree that there's no harm in having your boys in the bathroom until it becomes uncomfortable. It's just not something I would have done. I was out of line...and I apologize. And I didn't mean to imply that this had anything to do with him not listening to you. My point was that, in general, I think parents today are too lenient and to lax about proper discipline. But we could argue that point until doomsday, as well, and what consitutes proper discipline. So.... I apologize for being rude to you...I must have just had a bee in my bonnet yesterday, because normally I don't inject my opinions about things like this. I'm sure you are a wonderful mother, and far be from me to tell you how to do anything with your boys. And just to clear up the matters you mentioned. I didn't have a nanny...I raised my daughter for a good part of her childhood by myself, because her father got a wildhair and left me when she was 2 years old. He decided that he was missing something by being married, and I worked most of her life, outside of the home. I didn't do day care, I was fortunate in having some terrific friends who 'adored' my daughter, and we glad to take care of her for me while I worked. When she was 3, I put her into a church run preschool, where she stayed until the early afternoon. When I got off of work, I went and worked another 3 or 4 hours as volunteer at her school, to help to pay for her care...and I thorougly enjoyed doing that for almost 3 years!! I love children!! I adore children!! I might have had more, had her father not walked out. But I never again wanted to find myself in a position of having more children than I could afford to clothe or feed, or keep an eye on myself. I didn't believe that it was society's responsibility, like so many young woman do nowadays, to support my child. I believe if you make them, it's your job to raise them and support them. You obviously feel the same way. At that time, overpopulation was a hot topic too, much more so than it is now. So it was something that I had given a great deal of thought to before I decided not to have more. I'm not trying to come off like I'm high and mighty, or like I made a huge sacrifice, or was doing my part in trying to bring the world population under control. I just really felt that the world was getting too big too fast, and I wanted to give my daughter the best chance I could in the world to get where she wanted, and be whatever she wanted to be. And, I hate to sound rude guys, but I was NOT ever going to count on or depend on another man to do that for me, or take the chance of being left alone with more children. I could handle ONE, and so that's all I had. Now, as for the birth control thing...I was on 4 different kinds of birth control pills in 3 years. Everyone of them messed me up in some new way...so then my doctor went to the 'new' IUD's, the latest contraption to keep us from getting pregnant. The first one I had for 3 months, until I somehow got wound up with an infection in my uterus. They speculated at the time, that one of those wonderful yeast infections we girls sometimes get, must have traveled up the string, and infected the lining of my uterus. I started my period that month, and then nearly bled to death when the couldn't get the bleeding to stop for 23 days. They finally pulled the stupid thing out me and put me back on some kind of pill, until they were sure my periods were back on track and normal...again, the rapid weight gain (20 pounds in less than 2 months!!) and the 'super-bitch' syndrome. My body simply could not tolerate the extra hormones!! So he talked me into another 'new' kind of IUD. 4 months later, I missed my period...Sure enough a pregnancy test showed that I was pregnant....and an ultrasound, also very new technology then, showed that the placenta had attached itself to the IUD and to the wall of my uterus. It was decided that I had to have a D&C, the equivalent of an abortion in my mind, even though they tried to convince me otherwise. I didn't just go along with this and pop into a clinic to let them ream me out!! This was an abortion in my mind. But I had it done for obvious reasons. And it devastated me!!! I very nearly refused to do, even if it was a risk to my life!! But I already a daughter to consider, and I could not take that chance for her sake either. This was not something I did lightly. I DO NOT believe in abortion, and I don't even want to get on that subject with anyone!! I feel they have become entirely too common, and many times are used as a means of birth control by young girls who don't have sense enough to figure out how NOT to become pregnant!! Like I said, I don't want to go there!! But "all those pregnancies" was ONE pregnancy, and I still grieve for that child!! But I deserved that scathing I suppose, in light of the things I said to you. When my daughter was 3 years old, a friend of mine who had a 4 year old son, used to watch her for me now and then, and her little boy, Joey, crazy about my daughter. He fancied himself her 'boyfriend' and was constantly hugging and kissing on her. It was so cute!! One day, out of the blue, she came to me and said, "Momma, what's that thing in Joey's pants?" I said, "What thing honey?" She said, "I saw him going on the potty Momma, and there was something in his pants. Is it called a wee-wee?" It was all I could do to stifle a giggle, but I told her, "No Honey, it's really called a penis, but maybe Cindy calls it a wee-wee, and so Joey does too." She said, "Oh!" And ran off to play some more...nothing more was said about it. She asked me a year later, if she was going to get 'big titties' like me when she got big. I told her, "Yes, Honey, you probably will." She said, "Big ones like Gramma?" I said, "Well, maybe, or maybe just big like mine." She said, "Oh!" and skipped off. So no, I didn't hide these things from her. And when she asked I didn't tell her that she came from the cabbage patch either. I told her Daddy put her in my tummy because he loved me, and she grew in there until it was time to be born. When she got older, I told her about periods, and sex, and the whole story when she was about 8, because she asked me about the tampons she saw by Cindy's toilet. I didn't shower in front of her, and she knew that if she went outside anytime, without me being there with her, she would get her butt swatted. Again, I sincerely apologize for injecting my opinion into your life in such a rude manner. LIke I said, I'm sure you are a wonderful mother...and I just got a bee under my bonnet or something. I'll keep my opinions to myself on the subject anymore.